Wednesday, 24 August 2011


Can anyone enlighten me to who this man is? I would like to see a photograph of him, and I would also like to access any debates or speeches he made in the House of Parliament.


John Rose is a British Trotskyist politician and a leading member of the Socialist Workers Party. He is of Jewish descent[1] and best known as a speaker on Israel and Palestine and as a critic of Zionism. He teaches sociology at Southwark College and London Metropolitan University.[2]

He is the author of numerous books and articles including;

Israel: The Hijack State - America's Watchdog In The Middle East, Bookmarks Publications, October 1986, ISBN 0-906224-31-4
The Myths of Zionism, Pluto Press Ltd, January 2005, ISBN 0-7453-2055-4
Zionism's Iron Wall
Jesus: History’s Most Famous Missing Person
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We need a post-Zionist leap of faithAssimilation with space for Jewish identity offers us a better future

reddit this John Rose
The Guardian, Saturday 2 April 2005 23.54 BST Article historyDoes the religious and historical attachment of so many Jews to the "land of Israel" justify the Zionist project? The idea of a Jewish homeland continues to pose two problems. The first is the denial of Palestinian rights, especially the rights of the dispossessed refugees, who see an Israel built on their homeland. And the second is what "homeland" means for the Jewish majority that lives outside Israel.
There is an interesting and unexplored link between these two problems. Resolving the second can contribute to resolving the first. But that means Jews in the west renouncing our automatic right to be potential citizens of Israel.

This position chimes with the rhythms of Jewish history, especially, paradoxically, in the Middle East. More than 2,000 years ago, long before the fall of the second temple in Jerusalem in AD 70, the Jewish philosopher Philo of Alexandria addressed this very question. "Homeland", patris, was one's place of birth and education. There was Jewish pilgrimage to the temple at Jerusalem, but this meant reluctantly abandoning patris to visit what Philo called not "homeland", but a "strange land".

Incidentally, the existence of flourishing Jewish communities such as Philo's across the Mediterranean and beyond, long before the fall of the second temple, upset the Zionist myth of "exile". This held that Jews went into exile after the fall of the second temple as a result of the Roman policy of forcible dispersal. The Zionist enterprise is supposed to overcome the dispersal 2,000 years later. But "dispersal" appears to be a much more "natural" historical condition.

More than a thousand years later, also in Egypt, we have a highly successful Jewish community in the newly built Islamic city of Cairo. Professor Shelomo Goitein, the brilliant scholar of Islamic Arab-Jewish relations, in his analysis of the "Geniza" documents discovered in a medieval synagogue, has left us a vivid insight of how the city's Jews saw "homeland". This is the high point of Islamic-Jewish relations symbolised by Saladin, the Islamic world's greatest leader, protecting Cairo from the Crusaders as well as expelling them from Jerusalem.

It is worth reminding ourselves that it was the European Crusaders who slaughtered the Jews (as well as Muslims, of course) in Jerusalem, and it was Saladin who invited them to return. But most Jews had no intention of living in Jerusalem. It was a religious and spiritual centre, not a "homeland". The communities felt "at home" in villages, towns and cities throughout the Islamic world.

Jews migrated from Europe to the Islamic world to escape the Crusades. Cairo's Jews readily offered help to their European co-religionists. According to Goitein, Islamic authorities made no attempt to impede this migration. What a contrast with our contemporary "civilised" attitudes to migration.

The Jews of early 20th-century Iraq have similar lessons for us. To this day, Iraqi Jews understandably boast about their uninterrupted 2,500-year history, from Babylon to Baghdad. Joining the Iraqi national movement to throw out the British immediately after the first world war, they certainly did not want the Zionists. Menahem Daniel, a Baghdadi Jewish notable, wrote to them in 1922: "You are regarded as a threat to Arab national life." He told them: please stay away.

Jewish culture flourished as part of Iraqi culture. Over a third of Iraq's top musicians were Jewish. In 1949 as the crisis for Iraq's Jews gathered pace, cynically engineered by both Israel and Britain, as well as Iraq's pro-British puppet government, the Jewish Chronicle, to its credit, reported on the determination of Iraq's Jews to hang on: "On the whole, Islamic tolerance has enabled Baghdadi Jews to flourish as a centre of learning and commerce. They and their kind would like to stay..."

It will be objected that the European Jewish experience, nevertheless, suggests the need for a securely Jewish homeland as a kind of insurance against another Holocaust. Yet here we have what is sometimes called the "lachrymose" view of Jewish history: the inevitability of Jewish suffering at the hands of non-Jews. As one writer has put it, there is a danger of the scar doing the work of the wound.

In truth, the European Jewish experience is far more complex. The Jewish response to the anti-semitic pogroms of the collapsing Tsarist Russian empire more than 100 years, ago deserves particular study. The Jewish mass migrations to western Europe and America begin here. The Zionists developed their best cadres here. Yet the astonishing levels of participation by Jews in the resistance to the Tsar speak of a different Jewish history in the making. A history where the Jewish value asserted with most consistency was solidarity between Jews and non-Jews in the resistance. The Jewish socialist Bund helped pioneer this value, which the Zionists simply could not understand.

The value of solidarity was built into the promise made to the Jews by the Enlightenment and the French revolution. It said you are welcome here as equal citizens in the land of your birth.

Is this not the expression of Jewish history in modern times? Are not the Jewish communities in Western Europe and America models of an enlightened assimilation where we can express our Jewish identities, as well as feeling at home in the lands of our birth?

The dispossession of the Palestinians reinforces this argument. How can we justify the right to Israeli citizenship when the Palestinians have no country?

Arab-Jewish reconciliation demands an alternative approach. It can legitimately point, borrowing an insight from Walter Benjamin, to "sparks of hope" from the past history of Arab-Jewish relations in the Middle East. Some Israelis understand this. Israeli intellectuals associated with the trend known as post-Zionism imagine with confidence a Jewish life in the area without a Zionist state. A tiny number of former Zionist leaders, such as Meron Benvenisti, one-time deputy mayor of Jerusalem, agree. He says the Zionist revolution is over. He suggests scrapping the law of return that allows Jews anywhere to become Israeli citizens.

He says he loves the land and it's an Arabic land. Perhaps the old Jewish Enlightenment thinkers who believed in assimilation were much more correct than even they realised. Imagine the great-great-grandchildren of European Jewish settlers in Palestine assimilating into Arabic culture, absorbing it and contributing to its development, some time this century.

A leap of faith? To be sure, but we Jews have always been rather good at that.

· John Rose is the author of The Myths of Zionism

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Zoompad said...

"The Jewish royal bankers were just one of the countless resentments the feudal landowning barons held against the king. At the beginning of the 13th century the struggle between the feudal barons and the king climaxed with what would come to be seen as one of the great foundation documents of English democracy, the Magna Carta of 1215. Famous for its clause that no free man could be imprisoned or exiled 'except by the lawful judgment of his peers', the Magna Carta was in essence an attempt to impose constitutional and embryonic national order on the relations between the king and the barons (Holt 1992: 188-189).

The Magna Carta contained two 'Jewish' clauses which dealt with debt relief. Put very simply, the clauses reduced the amount of money owed by a debtor's family, if the debtor died, by canceling interest on the debt. This hit both the Jews and the king (because if the Jewish creditor died the debt accrued to the king). At the same time, of course, the clauses brought some relief to impoverished debtors. As the English Jewish historian Cecil Roth noted,

These clauses, with their burning sense of grievance which underlies them, give some idea of the animosity with which the royal (Jewish) satellites were now regarded.
(1949: 36-37) [End Page 8]
Salo Baron observed the significance of the new national framework within which the religious-economic grievances against the Jews were surfacing:

Pre-occupation with the Jewish problem deeply affected English national thinking … Edward (I) is rightly considered the monarch under whose regime the Franco-Norman and Anglo-Saxon ethnic strains were finally fused into the new English nation creating a fairly cohesive national state'.
(Shapiro 1996: 245 n.40)
At the same time the 'first real Christian bankers', like the Knights Templar, were taking over major Jewish financial roles (Johnson: 1993 213)."

Zoompad said...

There is hardly any information about John Rose MP, even the most basic of information is missing! Which constituency did he serve? Does anyone know?

Zoompad said...

MPs are SUPPOSED to be political representatives of the people who vote for them to enter Parliament. What the hell has been going on here? Who was John Rose representing? Where are his parliamentary debates? Who is he?

Zoompad said...

Oxford City Council election, 2002
(UK) | candidate Suzanne Ledwith | votes 209 | percentage | change | party Independent (politician) | candidate John Rose | votes 138 | ... 38 KB (2,747 words) - 01:28, 13 July 2010

Zoompad said...

Oxford City Council election, 2002From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaYou have new messages (last change).
Jump to: navigation, search
Elections to Oxford Council were held on 2 May 2002. The whole council was up for election with boundary changes since the last election in 2000 reducing the number of seats by three.[1] The Labour party gained control of the council.[1] The number of Councillors for each party after the election were Labour 29, Liberal Democrat 15, Green 3 and Independent Working Class Association 1. Overall turnout was 34%.

Contents [hide]
1 Election result
2 Ward results
3 See also
4 References

[edit] Election resultOxford Local Election Result 2002
Party Seats Gains Losses Net gain/loss Seats % Votes % Votes +/-
Labour 29 +8 60.4 38.4 24,667 +8.0%
Liberal Democrat 15 -6 31.3 26.1 16,768 -4.3%
Green 3 -5 6.3 18.7 11,985 +0.1%
Independent Working Class 1 +1 2.1 1.4 879 +1.4%
Conservative 0 -1 0 14.6 9,359 -4.9%
Socialist Alliance 0 0 0 0.60 382 +0.60%
Independent 0 0 0 0.22 138 -0.18%

[edit] Ward results

Zoompad said...

North (2)
Party Candidate Votes % ±%
Liberal Democrat Jean Fooks 602
Liberal Democrat Stephen Brown 586
Green Adrian Arbib 474
Green Miranda Carnegie 422
Labour Suzanne Ledwith 209
Independent John Rose 138
Labour Andrew Small 126
Turnout 2,557 31.7

Zoompad said...

So, he stood for Oxford in 2002 as an Independant. What about before that, he was certainly an MP at some point, as he is described as an MP on his college blurb, rather than a failed candidate. Where was he?

Zoompad said...

Off topic, but here is a David Rose, standing for election! Wonder if this is the MI5 paedo protecting David Rose?

North Down (Assembly constituency)
It usually shares boundaries with the North Down UK Parliament ... Elections Northern Ireland Assembly ! : David Rose 316 Not elected | ... 37 KB (2,241 words) - 20:42, 17 May 2011

Zoompad said...

Northern Ireland Assembly election, 2003
Party Candidate 1st Pref Result Count
Ulster Unionist Leslie Cree 3,900 Elected 13
Democratic Unionist Peter Weir 3,675 Elected 14
Democratic Unionist Alex Easton 3,570 Elected 14
Ulster Unionist Alan McFarland 3,421 Elected 14
UK Unionist Robert McCartney 3,374 Elected 14
Ulster Unionist Diana Peacocke 2,566 Not elected
Alliance Eileen Bell 1,951 Elected 13
SDLP Liam Logan 1,519 Not elected
Independent Brian Wilson 1,350 Not elected
NI Women's Coalition Jane Morrice 1,181 Not elected
Independent Alan Chambers 1,077 Not elected
Green (NI) John Barry 730 Not elected
Alliance Stephen Farry 704 Not elected
Conservative Julian Robertson 491 Not elected
Independent Alan Field 428 Not elected
Progressive Unionist David Rose 316 Not elected
Sinn Féin Maria George 264 Not elected
UK Unionist Tom Sheridan 209 Not elected
Independent Christopher Carter 109 Not elected

Zoompad said...

Back on topic, John Rose again

Oxford City Council election, 2004 (section Rose Hill and Iffley)
Election result: uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/vote2004/locals/html/3730. stm BBC http://www. ... John Rose stood on the platform "Local Government Reform" ... 25 KB (1,858 words) - 14:31, 2 May 2011

Zoompad said...

Oxford City Council election, 2004From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaYou have new messages (last change).
Jump to: navigation, search

Contents [hide]
1 Election result
2 Results by ward
2.1 Barton and Sandhills
2.2 Blackbird Leys
2.3 Carfax
2.4 Churchill
2.5 Cowley
2.6 Cowley Marsh
2.7 Headington
2.8 Headington Hill and Northway
2.9 Hinksey Park
2.10 Holywell
2.11 Iffley Fields
2.12 Jericho and Osney
2.13 Littlemore
2.14 Lye Valley
2.15 Marston
2.16 North
2.17 Northfield Brook
2.18 Quarry and Risinghurst
2.19 Rose Hill and Iffley
2.20 St Clement's
2.21 St Margaret's
2.22 St Mary's
2.23 Summertown
2.24 Wolvercote
3 See also

Elections to Oxford City Council were held on 10 June 2004. The council is elected by halves, so one seat in each ward was up for election (except in St Clements, where both seats were contested). Labour lost majority control of the council but remained in minority administration. Overall turnout was 37.6%, with the lowest turnout (26.5%) in Carfax ward and the highest (49.5%) in Wolvercote.

[edit] Election resultOxford Local Election Result 2004
Party Seats Gains Losses Net gain/loss Seats % Votes % Votes +/-
Liberal Democrat 10 4 1 +3 40.0 30.2 12,053 +4.1%
Labour 7 0 9 -9 28.0 27.4 10,970 -11.0%
Green 5 4 0 +4 20.0 20.4 8,161 +1.7%
Independent Working Class 3 2 0 +2 12.0 3.6 1,435 +2.2%
Conservative 0 0 0 0 0 17.6 7,019 +3.0%
Independent 0 0 0 0 0 0.83 333 +0.61%
Note: three Independents stood in 2004, compared with one in 2002.

The total number of seats on the Council after the election was:

Labour - 20
Liberal Democrats - 18
Green - 7
Independent Working Class Association - 3
Sources: BBC Oxford City Council

[edit] Results by wardParty Candidate Votes % ±%
Liberal Democrat Clark Brundin 706
Green Sushila Dhall 500
Conservative Elizabeth Pryor 214
Labour William Turner 175
Independent John Rose* 62
Turnout 1,669 39.0

*John Rose stood on the platform "Local Government Reform"

Zoompad said...

Well, he got even less votes that time! But he must have got in at some point, as he is clearly described as an MP, so when did he get in, and where?